[LIS-Forum] Open Access Journals?

Sukhdev Singh esukhdev at gmail.com
Thu May 25 12:17:05 IST 2006


So the discussion leads to some points:

1. It does not matter who pays. The people pays ultimately through
taxes or purchases. It is question of "Pre-Paid" Vs "Post-Paid".

2. There seems no opposition to OA as such. But it is considered at
its infancy. We hope some good models will come up in future. But who
will bring up these, we are not clear about it. Should we be doing
anything about it?

3. Discussion started with general aspects of OA Journals. However
business models for Indian journals has come up. I wish to look it
under two compartments. "Import" Vs "Export" of Information.

We "import" most of the intellectual information we consume. This
information is expensive through traditional models. Will it not suit
us if this information is available in OA form? Despite natural and
logical opposition from commercial interests, we find there are
attempts in Westerns countries like UK and US to make public funded
research information openly accessible. Should not we seen supporting
OA when we would be benefiting from those attempts?

Now let us look at the "export" compartment. We also produce
information. But the good one is "brain-drained" by getting published
outside. We import it along with other information. Whatever is
published here, we WANT it to be consulted outside. Well outside
people are interested but our distribution network is weak. The end
result is that people outside find it difficult to get a copy of our
published information. Fortunately, Internet has given an opportunity
to distribute whatever we publish. We should use it to expose and
"export" our information. The best way is to produce OA Journals.

OA journals are showing their worth. If impact factors are any
indication [although it has its own drawbacks], Top  Indian Journals
are available freely over Internet.

< Two Indian journals cross impact factor 1.00 in 2004, [NC Jain]
http://www.ias.ac.in/currsci/aug102005/429.pdf >

See also -
<Impact Factor of Indian journals [N. C. JAIN ]
http://www.ias.ac.in/currsci/dec102000/1513.pdf >


It would be wrong to believe that OA journals are of low quality. And
whatever is in print only or not easily available is not of good
quality. You can find plenty of examples of poor quality print only
journals as well as very difficult to get.

I wonder if MEDLINE was of better quality when it was fee based or now
when it is free over net. I use to wonder why a capital country like
US is spending huge public money on research and largest libraries of
the world. But now I understand it is part of their economy's
infrastructure and means to remain leaders in the Knowledge Society.

4. Yes, Institutional Repositories are no substitute to journals.
There have to be journal articles to fill the repositories like
libraries.


5. Time is ripe for business of publising International OA journals.
If we can produce International Journals like BioMED Central / PLoS [
with author pays model] , it could be better profitable venture. After
all we have the necessary infrastructure at low rates. After all
commercial venture like MedKnow and IndianJournals have come up. But
the situation is ripe for bigger plays - It could be Informatics or
Google. Interestingly Elsevier has just taken over a less known
journal of Indian Rheumatology Association. It would be difficult for
an Indian professional society to develop a web-site of its own having
all the necessary features like DOIs, OpenURLs, Linking Mechanisms,
RSS and other standards.   For marketing and brand building,
professional help would also be required.

--Sukhdev Singh, NIC.
http://openmed.nic.in


On 24/05/06, sathya <sathya at informindia.co.in> wrote:
> Some more thoughts on OA Journals.
>
> 1. Funding for research always comes from the taxpayer, "through" the
> Government. Governments don't earn any money on their own.
> 2. Taxpayer is predominantly business & industry or the consumer.
> 3. Government pays TO Institute TO author TO publisher is a politically
> vulnerable model.
> 4. What matters is not "who pays", but finding a viable and sustainable
> model.
> 5. What is not commercially viable is unlikely to be sustainable in the long
> run. (When I use the word "commercial", I mean commercial activity by both
> for-profit and non-profit agencies. A professional society may be a
> non-profit, non-commercial organization. But, its journal publication
> activity is a commercial activity.)
> 6. Institutional repositories can not be a substitute to Journals.
>
>
> Sathya
> ----------------------------------
> N V Sathyanarayana
> Informatics (India) Ltd
> Bangalore 560003, India.
> www.informindia.co.in
>
> FREE! World's largest portal for 3000+ Open Access Journals
> http://www.openj-gate.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Sukhdev Singh" <esukhdev at gmail.com>
> To: <lis-forum at ncsi.iisc.ernet.in>
> Cc: "Rajesh Chandrakar" <rajesh at inflibnet.ac.in>; <sathya at informindia.co.in>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 4:08 PM
> Subject: Re: [LIS-Forum] Open Access Journals?
>
>
> Here is my input to Rajesh comments:
>
> >But, I don't see any future of this model in India
> > as I have doubt that Indian Govt or the organization concerned would say,
> > "O.K. Go ahead author. We will pay your expenses to the publisher for your
> > publication".
>
> Let us see the whole picture. A scientific paper is not a fiction. It
> is an outcome of some research work. These works are funded directly
> or indirectly by Govt. Agencies. Add salaries of the scientists /
> scholars and the infrastructure cost. It is a huge investment. What
> all I am arguing is that it makes sense for Govt. / Funding agency to
> spend extra bit to ensure that publication of the research output
> [article] is Open Access.
>
> Doesn't it cost to subscribe traditional journals? Then why not to
> Pre-Pay in sponsoring OA publications?
>
> It is not that it is only OA Journals [like from BioMed Central /
> PLoS] charges the author [ or indirectly its funding agency]. Perhaps
> everybody knows that authors have to pay even to the traditional model
> journals. "Page Charges" is the term used by number of foreign
> Journals.
> Take a look at some examples:
> http://www.asabe.org/pubs/29_Jour_Manuscript_Submission.html
> http://www.jcn.or.kr/home/journal/pagecharges.asp?globalmenu=13
> http://www.biophysj.org/misc/ifora.shtml
> http://www.awma.org/journal/faq.htm
> http://www.amstat.org/publications/jasa/index.cfm?fuseaction=ifa
>
> It appears that there are norms to reimburse these "Page Charges" if
> an article is accepted in a journal of repute [having minimum impact
> factor of one].
>
> I do not see any reason why Govt / Funding agencies will refuse to
> bear the cost of excellent work. Doesn't it sponsor conferences or
> depute its employees  to such events in India or abroad? As already
> pointed out by Dr. Satya, if other countries can sponsor publications,
> then why can't India. Moreover it is not necessary for Govt Agencies
> to fund directly the authors. It can help sponsoring Professional
> Bodies to establish OA Journals. To some extend it does so by allowing
> its scientists / professionals to be on journals' editorial boards.
>
> And let us not forget the opportunities of establishing Institutional
> / Central self-archiving repositories. Which may be the short-cut for
> India to OA its intellectual output.
>
>
> --Sukhdev Singh
>
> On 24/05/06, Rajesh Chandrakar <rajesh at inflibnet.ac.in> wrote:
> > My comments as follows:
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "sathya" <sathya at informindia.co.in>
> > To: "Sukhdev Singh" <esukhdev at gmail.com>; <lis-forum at ncsi.iisc.ernet.in>
> > Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 3:51 PM
> > Subject: Re: [LIS-Forum] Open Access Journals?
> >
> >
> > > >From another approach, for OA Journals, three models  can be
> > > >considered.
> > >
> > > 1. Author pays model. This is like your pre-paid model. The funding
> > > agency
> > > funds author. He has the freedom to chose the journal. Examples:  Biomed
> > > Central, Hinawi (Egypt), PLOS,  Springer's Open Choice.
> >
> > Author pay model is supported by UK Govt. JISC (funding agency) pays to
> > the
> > publisher for author's publication. Similarly in US, there funding agency
> > does for their authors. But, I don't see any future of this model in India
> > as I have doubt that Indian Govt or the organization concerned would say,
> > "O.K. Go ahead author. We will pay your expenses to the publisher for your
> > publication".
> >
> > > 2.  Sponsor pays model.  This model is similar to Yahoo and Google
> > > model.
> > > The circulation of scientific literature is considered low compared to
> > > popular literature. Hence, the commercial viability of this model is
> > > still
> > a
> > > question mark.  Some publishers have successfully used  a mixed media
> > > approach -- Print+E where print  generates the required revenue for
> > > sustenance and the e-version is hosted free for all.  MedKnow, Indian
> > > Academy of Sciences, etc. A large no. of  peer-reviewed open access
> > journals
> > > are following this model.  If the print users migrate completely to
> > > online
> > > and stop subscribing to print version, this model may suffer a collapse.
> >
> > I am agree with this. In such situation, I don't see any future of this
> > model. And they have to find any alternative.
> >
> > > 3.  Directly funded by funding agencies. For all practical purpose, this
> > has
> > > to be the Government of the country.  You have INDMED model. Publishers
> > are
> > > not much concerned about revenue loss as their print revenues should be
> > > still stable enough. You also have Brazillian model like SciELO,
> > completely
> > > funded by The Government there.
> >
> > This is also one of the dark area of Indian journals, except the area like
> > medical and engineering. Unless the society/publisher itself come forward
> > to
> > bear the cost of its publication.
> >
> > > More models may emerge. From a business model perspective, OA domain is
> > > still very nebulous and experimental and is still far away from
> > > providing
> > > an alternative to the traditional scholarly publishing model
> > > (Library-pays-by-budget-Model!).
> >
> > I also believe, some more new models will appear in future.
> >
> > With regards,
> >
> > Rajesh
> >
> >
> > > Sathya
> > > --------------------------
> > > N V Sathyanarayana
> > > Informatics (India) Ltd
> > > Bangalore 560003, India.
> > >
> > > FREE! World's largest portal for 3000+ Open Access Journals
> > > http://www.openj-gate.com
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Sukhdev Singh" <esukhdev at gmail.com>
> > > To: <lis-forum at ncsi.iisc.ernet.in>
> > > Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 5:24 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [LIS-Forum] Open Access Journals?
> > >
> > >
> > > > What I can understand from your email is that you want to say again
> > > > that someone has to pay for the open access - be it the author,
> > > > publisher or employer / funding agency of the author.
> > > >
> > > > But same is also true in "Traditional Model" or Closed Access. In the
> > > > traditional /  subscription based model also the Governmental Agency /
> > > > Funding Agency pays subscription fee to acquire / subscribe the
> > > > journals into their Library for its employee / scholars to "consume"
> > > > literature before they can "produce".
> > > >
> > > > Let us remember one thing - in academic domain - both the consumers
> > > > and producers are the same - the scientific / academic community. They
> > > > consume literature to produce literature. And this circle is ensured
> > > > with the help of public money in some way or the other.
> > > >
> > > > Let me introduce two terms for the business models of the Open and the
> > > > Closed Access.
> > > >
> > > > "Pre-Paid" for Open Access Publishing - The funding agency Pre-Pays
> > > > for the Consume-Produce Circle by spending on the publication of the
> > > > research results which it has been funding. This payment has to be
> > > > made only once for all members of the scientific community.
> > > >
> > > > "Post-Paid" for Traditional Publishing - The funding agency does not
> > > > pay an extra bit for the research funded by it. The authors after
> > > > utilising the public money for carrying out research, get the results
> > > > published in traditional journals. No payment is required for
> > > > publication but the authors surrenders all rights of their paper. The
> > > > best papers most often are published in foreign journals. Later on -
> > > > the funding agency - makes the journal available in its library after
> > > > paying subscription cost. In case of foreign journal it has to shell
> > > > out foreign currency to get back the results of even that work which
> > > > it originally funded. Multiple payments are required to be made if the
> > > > govt. / funding agency has multiple libraries spread over a
> > > > geographical area. Even for digital copies / version the licence fee
> > > > would be in proportionate to the number of end - users.
> > > >
> > > > It can be easily seen that "Pre-Paid" model makes more sence for
> > > > research funding agencies.
> > > >
> > > > So if it costs to publish science - then why not to adopt "Pre-Paid"
> > > > model?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --Sukhdev Singh, NIC.
> > > > http://openmed.nic.in
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ---------
> > > > On 20/05/06, Chandrima Roy <croy at docdelserv.com> wrote:
> > > > Based on my understanding, discussions and as per the details given by
> > > > Peter Suber on http://www.earlham.edu/~peters/fos/overview.htm
> > > >
> > > > Can we summarize the points as under? -
> > > > Features of Open Access:
> > > >
> > > > A)    Free for User
> > > > i)          Users are free to quote or refer the text
> > > > ii)         They are free to download
> > > > iii)         Users are free to add the downloaded text to their
> > > > archive
> > > > iv)        As Online Access Literature is free of most copyright and
> > > > licensing restrictions, no permissions are required to make the
> > > > information freely available on users' platform, from any other
> > > > platform
> > > >
> > > > B)    Authors/ Publishers have to bear the cost
> > > > i)                    As an Author, if one has information but cannot
> > > > pay, then? Can he look for subsidy?
> > > > ii)                   A Publisher, who is either Commercial or
> > > > Governmental needs to fund the project. So, the finance will come from
> > > > where?
> > > > a)      Excess charging of Print Version? (That is possible in case of
> > > > established journals only)
> > > > b)      Subsidy? (Again available to established journal only)    OR
> > > > c)      Advertisements? (Again depends upon the Journal Standard)
> > > >
> > > > Chandrima Roy
> > > >
> > >
> > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > ------
> > > >>
> > > >> Date: Thu,
> > > >> 18 May 2006
> > > >> 14:14:20
> > > >> +0530
> > > >> From:
> > > >> Sukhdev
> > > >> Singh < http://ncsi.iisc.ernet.in/mailman/listinfo/lis-forum
> > > >> esukhdev
> > > >> at gmail.com
> > > >> >
> > > >>
> > > >> Who bears the cost of the author's intellectual inputs?!!
> > > >>
> > > >> The same
> > > >> should
> > > >> bear the cost of author's publication.
> > > >>
> > > >> What is reported in scholarly journals? -- Research output.
> > > >> Who does that research? -- Scientists / Scholars.
> > > >>
> > > >> And Scientists / Scholars get salary for that. They need
> > > >> infrastructure
> > > >> to work in. They work on Research Projects that cost
> > > >> money
> > > >> .
> > > >>
> > > >> Who bears all the cost?
> > > >>
> > > >> Publication costs are just a fraction of the total cost of the
> > > >> research
> > > >> output. So it makes sense to spend a bit extra to expose the
> > > >> research
> > > >> results, gain maximum impact of it and build ground for
> > > >> further
> > > >> research.
> > > >>
> > > >> So funding agencies
> > > >> ( Govt
> > > >> . or Others) need to spend little extra to
> > > >> publish
> > > >> the research / project outcome which they
> > > >> sponser
> > > >> . Public
> > > >> funding
> > > >> agencies have their publication wings - they just need to
> > > >> allow
> > > >> free / open access to their publications.
> > > >> Atleast
> > > >> to their
> > > >> online
> > > >> versions. Indian Council for Medical Research is an example
> > > >> which
> > > >> provides free access to their journal - Indian Journal of
> > > >> Medical Research.
> > > >>
> > > >> Well there are other models as followed by
> > > >> BioMed
> > > >> Central and
> > > >> PLoS
> > > >> .
> > > >> Advertising revenues could be other.
> > > >>
> > > >> Don't we have Free-to-Air TV Channels?
> > > >> Hey! Do we pay for listening to FM Radio Channels? - Private or
> > > >> Public.
> > > >>
> > > >> I would suggest -
> > > >>
> > > >> --All publications consuming public money to produce should be
> > > >> publicly
> > > >> accessible - at least their online versions.
> > > >>
> > > >> --All publicly funded research should be mandated to be open-archived
> > > >> by
> > > >> the author with in a time frame.
> > > >>
> > > >> --All teaching /
> > > >> reseach
> > > >> institutions should set-up their
> > > >> institutional
> > > >> repositories.
> > > >>
> > > >> --
> > > >> Sukhdev
> > > >> Singh, NIC.
> > > >> http://openmed.nic.in http://openmed.nic.in
> > > >>
> > > >> Date: Thu,
> > > >> 18 May 2006
> > > >> 02:18:16
> > > >> -0700 (PDT)
> > > >> From:
> > > >> ranjit
> > > >> dharmapurikar
> > > >> < http://ncsi.iisc.ernet.in/mailman/listinfo/lis-forum
> > > >> d_ranjit
> > > >> at yahoo.com
> > > >> >
> > > >>
> > > >> Dear Sir,
> > > >> You have asked about the cost of open source journals.
> > > >> who
> > > >> will bear the cost. Of course, the publisher,
> > > >> agency
> > > >> , person who is putting the journal on the net
> > > >> is
> > > >> required to bear the cost. Keeping the facility of
> > > >> open
> > > >> source journals is a way of an advertisement.
> > > >> Generally what I have observed that these open source
> > > >> journals
> > > >> are very old.
> > > >> Whenevr
> > > >> they found that there
> > > >> is
> > > >> not demand for such articles then they
> > > >> declear
> > > >> it
> > > >> as
> > > >> an open source journal. At least with this open
> > > >> source
> > > >> journals users will learn and will come to know
> > > >> that
> > > >> such titled journals are available. So it is a
> > > >> way
> > > >> of an advertisement. What I think. Like out dated
> > > >> goods
> > > >> are sold by maximum discount for attracting the
> > > >> customers
> > > >> towards new and fresh product. The same
> > > >> story
> > > >> can be applicable with open source journals
> > > >> R.G.
> > > >> Dharmapurikar
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > >> LIS-Forum mailing list
> > > >> LIS-Forum at ncsi.iisc.ernet.in
> > > >> http://ncsi.iisc.ernet.in/mailman/listinfo/lis-forum
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >
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